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Old 07-05-2008, 05:27 PM
wildcat wildcat is offline
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Ban of freelance photographers.

Having had experience with other industries, I wondered when this topic – the presence of the candid/freelance photographers – would come up. I was compelled to post something when I first learned of potential change (in the ban of cameras at Lexington Junior League and the issue at Midwest Charity) but refrained. I changed my mind when I read the latest posts on the Jr. League thread mostly because there are a few points and opinions I want to share that I believe would be lost in the mix if someone beat me to it.

To recap –
"Schatzberg Photography is the Exclusive Photographer for the 2008 Lexington Junior League Horse Show. Any other photography, or advertisement thereof, taken of subjects within the confines of the show ring without prior written consent from show management is expressly forbidden. Violation of this rule will be grounds for removal from the show premises."

As it stands in this text, photography is banned from Lexington Junior League.
Now, I’m not certain whether or not this would actually be enforced on parents/etc…but that it is how it is written. Lets instead assume this applies directly to the candid/freelance photographers which I will assume it was intended for. The following comments apply to every instance in which this has come into play, not specifically this instance.

As a person sympathetic to individuals who lose their occupations due to market change, I can see the point of the official photographers. But I think the issue lies within their plight, so to speak – there are a lot of people willing to protect a few individuals from economic distress without considering a few different things –
a) the economic effect on the numerous individuals who have earned income off their alternative means of photography (I suppose the question here is – why are most shows dominated by so few individuals that get the “official” standing? Why is one person’s income more valuable than the others? If it is not, do shows accept open bids for this position – and seriously consider them?)

b) the potential of alternative options: if this is an issue in which the consumers (competitors, owners, trainers, etc) take an issue…will show managements consider an alternative? (Is monopolizing the income potential for one individual worth extracting options from the people who keep the show running?) Isn’t there another model the show can work with – hiring a different individual or entity for in-ring coverage and allowing the sidelines to remain open market? Is there an individual or business entity that would accept an in-ring position and allow free competition?

Show management could sell various passes – offering individuals access and varying levels of opportunity based on the expense of each pass – for instance, X amount of dollars would buy you in-ring time, X amount of dollars would buy you a vendors stand, X amount of dollars would buy you a pass in which you could forego the vendors stand and sell online, X amount of dollars could buy you an amateur pass to distinguish the other big cameras from the rest of the professionals. Why don’t shows wise up and make a little cash for themselves in this case?

c) the positive nature of competition: I will interject a little personal opinion here and outline a few ways in which I have witnessed positive change due to (I will assume) the presence of alternative photographers – 1) faster proof turnaround 2) increased instances of on-site printing for early in the week orders 3) extra hired cameras contracted by the “official” entity.

In my opinion, the good pictures will always sell – it has to be the decline in the sale of “okay” pictures that is affecting the income of the official photographers.
I have more to say, but I will wait to share it.

I know other venues work differently – but for once, there was very much a “consumer’s market” within our small niche of the horse world – and as a consumer, I would be extremely sad to see it go.
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Old 07-05-2008, 08:24 PM
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smorrow923 smorrow923 is offline
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The arabian horse association is doing the same thing for their national shows. We can have point and shoots with less than a 3 inch, non-detachable lens and no video taping at all.


I'm sorry but if I go to a show, and my mother wants to video me and take pictures, we're going to do it. We don't sell them, we don't take business away from the pro photographer. If they want to throw us out, fine. See how fast the show numbers go down.
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Old 07-05-2008, 08:51 PM
SunshineDays SunshineDays is offline
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I understand that this is controversial due to that this is the first time photographers are putting their feet down, Doug Shiflet at Midwest and Howie at Lexington, my question is, why hasn't this discussion arisen in regards to video footage.

Forever, Richfield has had sole contracts at some of the major shows, which has precluded some of the other video photographers; now when photographers are trying to do the same thing, there is an uproar.

I find this is a little one sided. If we are going to be an open market, it should be across all niches, not just one, and if we are going to allow monopolies, it should be the same.
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Old 07-05-2008, 09:32 PM
asb1 asb1 is online now
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This is very disappointing. The official photographer often focuses on the best known horses and riders and takes very few shots of the rest of the horses. I realize that they are going for the shots that are most likely to be bought for ads, but are owners and riders of up and coming horses supposed to just do without a good photo? If no other photogs are going to be allowed, then the 'official photog' needs to step up to plate and capture good shots of every horse in the arena instead of just a select few.
Also, regarding videographers, how did Richfield get the monopoly on major shows? The videographers at smaller shows are more reliable, produce better quality videos and charge much less. My memorable moments from Richfiled include a video of the dirt in the arena (yep, just dirt) while my daughter was in her first Jr. League lineup, no sound on the video of my daughter's first ever class in Louisville, and an 'oops, we didn't get that class' on a class earlier this year.
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Old 07-05-2008, 10:08 PM
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Barnboss72 Barnboss72 is offline
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Whatever...

I'll let the ones who are involved worry about the logistics of it (i.e. paying lawyers or whatever it is they want to spend their money on...).

I'll buy a picture if I like it. If Howie or Doug or Linda or WHOEVER doesn't take any good pictures of our horses, then I don't buy one. Period. That's why it's nice to have someone in the family or a friend take pics or video. Someone else taking pics at the show and then selling them without consent...hmmmmmm...don't "official" show photographer's have to pay the show a certain percentage of their makings at said particular show? I think they do...and if someone else who is not "official" takes pics and then sells them without paying any fee's or is not "official"...has to be some issues there.

I can see the point of the photog's who are ticked off. HOWEVER, if they don't deliver a product I want to buy and someone else does, than I buy the product I like the best...free market folks. Kinda like Louisville where there's, what...3 official photog's? One may have a better shot than the other.

When mom or dad video's or takes a pic, there is no problem because they are not selling the picture and making a profit. I don't see this applying to that scenario.

Jon
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Old 07-05-2008, 10:17 PM
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bigasbfan bigasbfan is offline
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I'm curious where this will leave representatives for the various magazines who take candid photos for the publications. I am the East Tennessee representative for Show Ring Times and I know that publication prefers photos to long articles. Will representatives be able to shoot or not?

Someone mentioned the legal aspect and it will be interesting to see what is brought to light there. Not everyone shooting from the rail is shooting to sell photos. I've always carried my camera to shows and played around, but mainly to try to improve my photography skills. When I get photos I think my friends will like, I give them away! I know in my case, I provide no threat to the "official" show photographers. A couple of years ago I was shooting some photos to go with an article I was doing for Saddle Horse Report and the official show photograher approached me outside the ring and questioned my reasons for shooting photos.
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Old 07-05-2008, 10:39 PM
canter canter is offline
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Both sides of the fence with photographers........

I have a box at Lexington which I sell if I am not attending, grandstand side on the rail. I am sick and tired of photographers entering into my box to take pictures or video. I am also tired of trainers coming into my box to shout out instructions to their customers and beat the wall. I just want to watch and enjoy the horse show for my well-paid box. This obstructs my view.

On the other hand, a great photo of Joe Friday was taken at Lexington last year and auctioned off last year with proceeds to SBR by Jane Jacobs outside of the ring. The angle was really phenomenal.

The Schatzberg statement does not negate you being banned for taking pictures or video. it says you must get prior written permission from show management first.

I once had a w/t that was down right afraid of flashbulbs. She stopped dead in her tracks whenever they went off in the ring. She was 16 years old and well shown. Multiply that by 5 photographers and I have to ask to be excused. Also please consider young horses the first or second time in the show ring.

I was also filmed for a commercial for this horse show by WLEX-TV one year and the lights were really bright coming down the rail in the equitation championship in front of the judges. I would suppose WLEX would have to get permission as well for advertising the show.

Just some thoughts.
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Old 07-05-2008, 11:20 PM
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Shoot, I took part in a discussion about the ridiculous Arab Nationals photography rules and used the example of "how the Saddlebred folks handle candid photography" as an example of how well it could be done. Obviously, that was before all this.

I think I've only taken candid shots at one show where I wasn't the center ring photographer. Personally, my interests for candids tend to lie outside of the arena when I'm the photographer.

That said, if I was the one spending thousands and thousands of dollars to show my horse, I would sure like the opportunity to buy pictures from whoever has the skill to take a good one.


Quote:
Originally Posted by canter View Post
I once had a w/t that was down right afraid of flashbulbs. She stopped dead in her tracks whenever they went off in the ring. She was 16 years old and well shown. Multiply that by 5 photographers and I have to ask to be excused. Also please consider young horses the first or second time in the show ring.
Candid photographers will most likely be using natural light instead of flash. The only source of flash photography should be the center ring photog.
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Old 07-05-2008, 11:41 PM
ASB4Kim ASB4Kim is offline
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[quote=Barnboss72;22887]Whatever...

"Someone else taking pics at the show and then selling them without consent...hmmmmmm...don't "official" show photographer's have to pay the show a certain percentage of their makings at said particular show? "

In response to Barnboss's post, I don't know any shows that take a percentage. To my knowledge, only a few with substantial income potential charge the official photographer a vendor's fee. In contrast, some shows pay the official photographer's hotel and expenses to come to the show.

In addition, most shows do not provide the option for a freelance photographer to pay for the right to shoot and sell at the show. The official photographer's contract often legally allows him/her exclusivity for the following: 1.) to photograph with a flash from center ring, 2.) to be publicized in print and through announcements as the official photographer, and 3.) to be the only vendor to sell photos at the show. These are valuable rights.

There is no law prohibiting photography at public events with very limited exception. Once the photograph is taken (i.e., the image is captured), that image is the property of the person who took it. There is also no law prohibiting the publishing of the photos or the sale of the photos. Therefore, there should be no "issues."

Kim
www.SaddlebredWeb.com
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Old 07-05-2008, 11:57 PM
ASB4Kim ASB4Kim is offline
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As a co-owner of SaddlebredWeb.com, I will preface by saying this subject is one of extreme importance to us. We have spent countless hours talking to and e-mailing the show chair of the Lexington Jr. League and convincing other people to do the same, but apparently to no avail. It appears that protecting the income of the official vendor photographer is more important than fairness or equity to Saddlebred exhibitors and supporters of the breed. I could write volumes on the subject but will try to limit my comments to only a couple of very pertinent points:

1. Although it is not the most important issue to me, I will first address the “financial hardship” arguments. The official photographers have traditionally had a monopoly that has protected a very lucrative job. I can understand why it is difficult to accept having some others receive a small portion of the pie. However, I am quite surprised at how many people are willing to accept the allegations of the best known in-ring photographers that allowing out-of-the-ring photographers to shoot will put them out of business or cause them crippling hardship. I think most people would be quite surprised at the income available at an “A” rated show. Since it is difficult to compare advertising photos by show, I did some calculations by magazine issues. Those calculations can be found at the end of this post. I know that before I would accept a “hardship” argument, I would want to know more facts. Nonetheless, this is not the important issue as far as I am concerned.

2. The issue that is closest to my heart is the fairness issue. If anyone thinks that Dave and I put in the unbelievable number of hours we do because of the big bucks, they do not know our reality. We do it because of my 40+ year love of the American Saddlebred horse and a desire to promote the breed through our website. We provide pictorial coverage of not only horse shows but other major Saddlebred events. We use the small amount we make from photo sales to defray the cost of providing our service and hopefully pay us for a fraction of the hours we put in. For those of you who don’t know us and my background, Dave and I own four American Saddlebreds and have one in training (a three-year-old who won his debut class at the 2008 Indianapolis Charity Horse Show). I personally rode and drove to many blues and tri colors in the 1970's and have owned at least one Saddlebred continuously since late 60's. In addition, I have served the Saddlebred industry in several other capacities including as a co-founder of what is now the Indianapolis Charity Horse Show and as its first show secretary, as President of the Indiana Saddlebred Horse Association, as a columnist for major Saddlebred magazines, and as a partner in Mi-Kim Photos - the official photographers for many horse shows in the past including River Ridge, Indianapolis Charity, Indiana State Fair Horse Show, Ohio State Fair Horse Show and the Morgan Gold Cup. I mention this overview of my involvement for one reason only - to point out that I have supported the American Saddlebred breed in many ways over the years. I also want to point out that we have made a very substantial investment in photographic equipment in order to promote the breed through our website.

Taking photos of exhibitors at public events is entirely legal. We are constantly told by exhibitors who make the horse shows possible that our service is valued. Service from the official photographers has definitely improved since competition appeared. Many, many exhibitors express how much they want the choice of different angles and artistic views. Publications have told us that we "saved" an ad for them because the owner had not found a photo to use from the official photographer. We have been told by many exhibitors that they felt ignored by the official photographers and have welcomed the options provided by “freelance” photographers. It will be impossible for the shows to know the "intent" of photographers, and the policies cannot be fairly enforced unless they want a show that resembles a police state - instead of an enjoyable environment for all present.

Despite everything mentioned here, there are those out there who discuss "freelance photographers" as if we are strangers who have come to the show off the streets for the sole purpose of stealing some profit from the official photographer. Some of the comments make it clear that the writers believe it is entirely okay for a single official vendor to convince show management to threaten Dave and me (and other exhibitors - including some who have contributed to the industry even more) with removal from the show grounds for taking photos from outside the ring if we intend to sell any of them. I stress, not because it is illegal, but because it might have a serious impact on someone’s income compared to the monopoly he would have without us. Even some of the exhibitors who think the policies are wrong are afraid to speak out in fear of some type of reprisal from the official photographer.

Quite frankly, it is impossible for me to express at this moment and in this forum how much I am hurt by this and how disheartened I am beginning to feel about my future involvement in this industry that has played such a major role in my life. We moved to Lexington two years ago because of American Saddlebreds, and I had looked forward with excitement to getting more involved in showing and participation in the ASHA. However, even a blue ribbon doesn’t make up for a negative and unwelcoming environment.

If you don’t think these prohibitive policies are right, don’t tell me or restrict your comments to this forum. I urge you to make your views known to the show managements who are creating the policies. I continue to hope that the wishes of the exhibitors and the supporters of the industry will be heard above the single voice of even the most-respected official vendor. When we started the Indy 500 Charity Horse Show many years ago, our motto was essentially, "The exhibitor is king." We believed that a happy exhibitor made a successful show. When did that change?

Kim
www.SaddlebredWeb.com

For those of you still with me, here are the results of my “research” regarding photos used in advertising. Please keep in mind that the Saddlebred industry has at least seven publications competing for ads. Some people advertise in only one (meaning each magazine has completely different photos for the single advertisers), some in more than one. The ones who advertise in more than one, often buy separate photos for each publication. In addition to the photo counts provided below, there is money made from multiple copies and there are countless photographs being purchased just for enjoyment that never make it into magazines.

I selected some 2007 issues at random, trying to stay with ones that either covered larger shows or (in one case) were handed out at a large show. Here are some figures - keeping in mind that each of these represents just one of at least 4 monthly glossies and about 9 newsprint publications for that month: In the August 2007 issue of Saddle and Bridle, there were 222 photos that were easily identified as having been taken by official show photographers. The breakdown of the top four was as follows: Howie Schatzburg 72, Doug Shiflet 51, Shane Shiflet 40 and Rick Osteen 37. In the special Lexington issue of The National Horseman there were 128 photos taken by official photographers with Doug leading them at 58, and Washburn second at 21. In the October issue of Saddle and Bridle, there were 160 photos taken by official photographers. Doug Shiflet had 71 and Howie had 48. The only other issue I tediously counted was the December 3, 2007 issue of Saddle Horse Report. In that publication there were 88 photos from in-ring photographers with Howie Schatzburg leading the pack with 67. Keeping in mind that I just grabbed some issues and made no attempt to use the ones that had the most photos in them, and multiplying the numbers by a typical $50 for an 8x10, and then making some attempt to calculate the addition of all the other publications, it would be difficult to come to the conclusion that the horse shows were a losing proposition for the official photographers - despite the appearance of some advertisement photos by out of the ring photographers in the same issues.

Last edited by ASB4Kim : 07-06-2008 at 01:16 AM.
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